“This is going to go for review at the state level”: Alachua County School Board discusses book challenge process

BY JENNIFER CABRERA
GAINESVILLE, Fla. – At a workshop on February 7, the Alachua County School Board discussed its procedures for handling book challenges from parents.
Staff Attorney Susan Seigle explained that district staff didn’t want “any one person making a decision,” so they initially set up school-level Library Advisory Committees and a district-level committee. She said she didn’t realize at first that the school-level meetings needed to be open meetings, “and I’ve taken full responsibility for that because the first two meetings were not open.” She said the initial procedures also allowed the school committees to make a decision at the meeting about keeping or removing the book.
From closed meetings to open public meetings
At the first school-level meeting, the Gainesville High School Principal decided to take the book, Beyond Magenta, off the shelf, “and at that point, with the procedures we had, there was no redress for the folks that thought that book should have stayed,” Seigle said. Initially, the procedures only called for the challenges to be heard by the district committee if the book was removed, “and at that point, I realized the error.” Seigle said she offered the parent in that case, Dr. Marull, the choice to start over or waive the requirement to have an open meeting; she said Marull waived the requirement, “and that way, we didn’t have any argument or problem that we did not have an open public meeting.”
Seigle continued, “So then we refined the procedure so that the meetings at the district level and at the school level would be open public meetings, with no public comment, and they would make a decision.” That procedure was followed for several book challenges, but, Seigle said, “Principals did not like it and the school media specialists did not like it because… some schools had many, many more than others, and [the District Media Specialist] was running all over the county at meetings.”
Is public comment required at the meetings?
At that point, Seigle said that School Board Member Sarah Rockwell expressed concerns about Sunshine Law violations with no public comment at a meeting in which the committee was making a decision, “and so I did a little research and asked around. And the irony of the whole thing is… the state said ‘Open public meeting, make a decision, but no public input.'”
Seigle said she asked other school board attorneys around the state and learned that Sarasota County had decided to ask the committees to make recommendations instead of decisions, removing the requirement for public comment.
District committee will now meet twice a month, hear all book challenges
Seigle said she also wanted to “protect our students, our faculty, our people, and our parent volunteers better,” so she decided Principals should receive the objection to the book and then send it directly to the district committee. The district committee will now convene twice a month to hear all objections and make a recommendation; then the recommendation will go to the school board to make a decision with public input.
Alachua County Public Schools now has a page on their website with a link (see the sidebar on the right) to the current status of all library book challenges in the county. It also lists various resources, including a list of books removed in all Florida counties in the 2022-23 school year. Seigle said everyone is welcome to come to book challenge hearings, which are listed on that page.
Seigle: “This is going to go for review at the state level, and I want to make sure we’ve done everything we can.”
Seigle said that because parents don’t typically bring lawyers to the hearings, she doesn’t “make legalistic objections I might make at a trial, but the only objections I make are things like relevance. Or – there was one that cited Wikipedia as a source, and I just objected that that was an improper source… Because, you know, this is going to go for review at the state level, and I want to make sure we’ve done everything we can.”
Seigle explained that the decision to give Dr. Marull 10 minutes to present her case to the school board arose from a student hearing procedure that is already part of district policies. She said Marull had sent an email “demanding that she not be limited to the time of public comment.” Seigle said her initial opinion was that Marull should get “three minutes like everyone else,” but another staff member recalled that the district’s student hearing procedure has a 10-minute time limit for both sides. Seigle continued, “So we thought that was going to be a fair way of doing it. We weren’t able to get with [Board Attorney] Delaney yesterday… to figure that out, but I figured he would approve since it was a policy we’ve already had. And so I think that’s a fair policy. I didn’t want someone to come in here and spend an hour of your time re-arguing everything they argued at the hearing.”
Hearings will be posted on district’s YouTube page
Seigle also said that videos of the book challenge hearings will be posted on the district’s YouTube page so the public can watch them, and school board members will also be able to watch them before voting on the Final Order for each book. She also hires a court reporter for each hearing to produce a transcript. She concluded, “I view [this procedure] as a living document because, as you all know, the legislature is in session, and that means we could expect changes in different places.”
Abbitt: “I don’t want more than 10 minutes, not after last night’s marathon meeting.”
Member Sarah Rockwell asked when the procedure would be made into a policy, which requires two readings and a public hearing; Seigle said the book challenge procedures will be added for the second reading of Policy 2522 and were included in the public hearing for that policy on February 6; she said the only modification they’re thinking about is changing the amount of time allowed for presentations to the board.
Member Kay Abbitt said, “I don’t want more than 10 minutes, not after last night’s marathon meeting” (the February 6 meeting lasted 5.5 hours and ended at 11:30 p.m.). She said she was glad the full hearings would be available to board members.
Parent applicants needed for the District Library Advisory Committee
Abbitt asked how the parent on the District Library Advisory Committee would be chosen for each book challenge hearing; the parent must have a child who would have access to the material being challenged.
Director of Curriculum Kevin Berry said there is an application process (more information is available here), but he wasn’t sure how parents would be selected. He encouraged parents to sign up because “we haven’t had a tremendous response.” Abbitt suggested a random drawing from eligible parents for each book challenge.
Seigle: The Superintendent and Board Members could not testify at book challenge hearings due to a conflict of interest
There was a discussion about witnesses called to testify in the book challenge hearings because Seigle said her preference was that employees should agree to appear voluntarily instead of being subpoenaed. Member Tina Certain asked whether there were any guidelines on which employees could be called as witnesses, and Seigle said that was an interesting question. She said Marull, for example, had requested that Abbitt and Superintendent Shane Andrew be present at her next book challenge hearing, and “clearly Ms. Abbitt cannot be present since she’s on this board, and she will be making a determination… Mr. Andrew, likewise, is going to make a recommendation, and so he’s got a conflict, also. So that’s inappropriate.”
Public comment
During public comment, Betsy Williams, who has a PhD in Economics of Education, said, “The board members, the educators, the resource specialists–none of you went into this in order to ban books; you want to make education better for students… Media specialists are professionals who have pedagogical content knowledge, and they know their students… And so the fact that their professional opinion is being discarded for parent opposition to certain books can be really dispiriting.”
Williams warned that the district could have trouble hiring media specialists in the future if “the people who are trying to teach students have to instead enforce these bans.” She said book challenges are “gumming up the works of actually educating students” and applauded the district for creating a procedure that has “transparency and good faith… I’d encourage you, because the law is vague, to err on the side of information and freedom.”
Dr. Crystal Marull said, “I just want to speak from the parent’s perspective: this has been the most anti-parent-friendly process that I’ve ever engaged in with a school district.” She said that when she’d had a concern about a book on the Cambridge reading list in 2020, she’d simply had a conversation with the teacher and resolved the issue. This year, however, when she went to the media specialist about a book in the Terwilliger Elementary library, “She refused to have a conversation with me.” She said the principal also refused to have a conversation with her, and when she reached out to the school district, “You’ve all refused to have a conversation with me; you put me down to a maximum of 3 minutes here, 10 minutes there. And then you object and tell me everything I tried to say from a parent’s perspective is irrelevant.”
Marull continued, “I’m not a trained lawyer, but I know when I see corruption, and this has been the most corrupt, unfair process. These changes… have always been done to the benefit of the district and never to the benefit of a parent.”
Marull read the statutes governing library materials and added, “The fact that I keep saying, ‘You need to take into consideration the alignment with the curriculum and the standards,’ is founded in the statutes for library materials. So the distinction of, ‘Oh, that’s instructional materials,’ is wrong and a misinterpretation of the statutes. I’m imploring you: show up at these hearings and see how I am treated, as an untrained legal professional, when I try to make these points about the specific books.”
Bob Edewaard said he had two suggestions for the book challenge procedures: he recommended a Citizen Review Committee below the district-level committee, composed of parents, “to give their current parental perspective on the disputed material.” He also suggested varying the amount of time given to the parent at the school board hearing, depending on “the nature of the objection and the material that has been presented at the [district] hearing level.” He had some other suggestions but was cut off by Chair Diyonne McGraw because he ran out of time.
Since the meeting was a workshop, no motions were made, and no votes were taken.
The staff attorney didn’t know the meetings had to be open?!! ‘Nuff said!
It should not take four or five reviews in multiple committees to determine whether a book should be restricted to a higher grade or removed completely. One complaining parent should not be able to tie up so many employees or a school board, instead of just completing a form prohibiting their own child(ren) from accessing the book. This does not require a rocket scientist.
Thank you! Florida Freedom to Read Project has a lot of really great information regarding book removals in the state.
Interesting how the FFTRP project uses the inflammatory “book banning” accusation liberally.
No one is banning any books – they can be checked out in the high school library, public library, or buy it at a store – that ain’t banning!
FFTRP’s suggestion that any book, magazine or video is appropriate for kids is either naive or wicked. I suspect it, based on the pattern of behavior and preponderance of the evidence, it’s wickedness in high places.
I agree, it shouldn’t take multiple committees to determine if a book is inappropriate or not – but we live in unreasonable times where it’s acceptable within a small circle of education administrators to show kids sexual material that I would get fired from my job for sharing with any coworker.
The problem isn’t a “complaining parent” as you charge, but wicked administrators who want to sexualize our children. STOP SEXUALIZING KIDS!
This sounds like some crazy qanon right here. I don’t think any of these books are sexualizing kids.
Ah, there you go, denying what is going on and painting your typical, concerned parent as a cook.
This is just one example, from a Leftist source. It’s full on sexualization of kids. Perverted criminals. Many of these are verified “educators”.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/children-nyc-drag-chant-video/
And another, right from the producer’s mouth. The characatures in these “books” of sexual activity, or “sexperience”, are rampant – and it targets 2nd-5th graders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpAr0LDAXBk
Here’s a well produced, short video regarding these books that you don’t “think” are sexualizing kids. Warning – graphic sexual content.
https://rumble.com/v4dhj5l-book-ban-2-w-timer.html
Fear mongering, and projection. Kids are way more likely to be sexually groomed at church . It’s not the Drag Queens doing it!! Parents are free to let the school know what books they dont want their child to access. But dont make the decision for MY kid
Feel free to buy your child whatever book their heart desires. you have that right. Just don’t force that garbage on the rest of the students.
What data are you making that assessment on (school vs. church?). It’s a fact that 1.5 public school educators are arrested EVERY DAY in the USA for sexual misconduct with a minor.
The staff attorney knew exactly what she was doing…. And she is fully aware of Sunshine Laws. I think their closed mtg minutes should be made public or maybe I’ll just submit a FOIA request.
There is no need, ever, for school kids to learn how to give blowies to other students, or read about rape from books in their libraries. Shame on the “adults” who are promoting this filth.
The American Library Association (ALA) has gone full woke with their past president as a self confessed Marxist lesbian whose goal was to bring these exact issues and activist activities to libraries. In fact, on the ALA website is a full page dedicated to how to handle these requests and how to deal with parents. It’s sad, really. Once an honorable profession, librarians are now those who graduated with useless undergrad degrees and got tired of working at Starbucks. Parents must educate themselves against this type of activism that the public libraries spew.
How come the straight books haven’t turned the gay kids straight? Get real
When did a toddler catch a good habit from another toddler? It’s in a child’s nature to gravitate toward the unusual.
All the time! That’s why we have them socialize with each other.
Buff, there are no gay or straight kids. They are KIDS! Stop sexualizing them, pervert!
Changes need to be made to make sure parents are heard and treated with respect. I attended the meeting about the book “Melissa”. I appeared to me that the parent was in a group of school board employees ( and their loyalties were to their employer) and they seemed to already, made up their minds against the parent. (And to support their colleagues). The book was originally written for middle schoolers, based on the authors intent, so why is it even put in elementary schools???
This woke crap needs to be taken out of our schools. Why are taxpayers being asked to pay for books like this to be taught to children?
There’s something seriously wrong with the people allowing this kind of material even to be in our schools. No wonder our schools are failing.
it’s NOT being “taught”. what’s wrong with learning there is life different from your bubble?
Nothing, when done decently at the right time.
If I had any discussion at my workplace that is similar to those contained in any of these sexually explicit books, I’d be fire on the spot.
I applaud Dr. Marull for making her case well.
It seems rather hopeless to be able to make our schools off limits to smut and grooming materials, but I just want to remind everyone that VOTERS get to make a difference here!
If concerned citizens show up and vote, we can change this school board to empower parents rather than activists.
Is National Geographic banned?
Nothing is banned. Protecting kids from sexual material isn’t banning anything – these books can be checked out in the high school library, public library, or bought at a store – that ain’t banning!
Should National Geographic be read by a K-3 student? The articles are written to a 9th grade level, so I think the answer is apparent.
Of course local lawyers WANT more mental illness, as it increases the chances of a capital crimes. Especially in schools. It’s the jackpot 🤬👹🤡🍦
Alachua County School Board where mistakes are the norm and accountability does not exist. One board member still owes the taxpayers and students tend of thousands in back pay.
I don’t know the answer, but maybe parents who think their child is having issues should seek help for their child. Books could possibly confuse a child. Just because a little girl is a “Tomboy” or a little boy likes cooking doesn’t make them less of a girl or boy. Just encourage them. Don’t let outsiders influence your children.
Sure, we should make it easy for Dr Marull to have whatever books she deems a problem to be removed from our schools’ libraries. Her disclaimer about legal knowledge aside, she seems to imply that she knows the meaning of the state standards and how they should be applied, so what could possibly be the problem with her just giving the county a list of books to be burne … I mean banned.
In fact the job of the staff attorney is to deal with the legal ramifications of what is a new emphasis in the law, and to do that in public. It is not her job to make it easy for Dr Marull or other parents to ban books without a full hearing including discussion with trained media specialists and educators (kind of like Dr Marull, but maybe not in agreement with her). I don’t know what happened to “A is for Activism”, but Ms Abbitt – everyone’s hero on this comment board – disagreed with her on that one. I assume Dr Marull knows she shouldn’t have carte blanche on the decisions about books, and probably personalities have clashed and been wounded by the now repeated process, but this is a new one, and everyone should calm down, as the county attempts to make it fair for those who show up to object as well as rest of the population who don’t.
Dr. Marull seems to be sticking to the process, not trying to dictate anything. Her expert analysis seems to be logical, and in accordance with the science of education. It seems that you’re not following the educational science Jazzman. Isn’t that what you accused others of when it came to COVID measures?
Hypocrites are the most despised member of society.
“It seems that you’re not following the educational science Jazzman….”
?? I don’t claim to be any kind of expert on that Reckoning, and unlike Covid vaccines, it’s not an area with a large medical and scientific consensus – “get your shot!” – backed up by death rates, that layman like us can depend on.
But maybe I misunderstand you – what “educational science” do you specifically mean?
Jazz, Dr. Marull is an expert in the science of education. It’s a thing, similar to political science as you alluded to in your COVID reference (nothing in the widespread, public health response to COVID was driven by medical science; it was driven by political science). Dr. Marull is choosing books based on the educational consideration and the alignment of the material with the curriculum and the standards, not because of whatever she “deems” or she needs to “calm down” (nice mansplaining).
wrong. She’s trying to dictate what everybody else’s child can access.
Hey School Board members! How about if you focus on how to best educate kids instead. This might refresh your mission: https://youtu.be/8WYi-64MejU
The Staff Attorney Susan Seigle boasts over 30+ years of law experience and over 16 years serving county boards and commissions. She is going to play the “I didn’t Know” card. Just another example of the ill knowledged personnel school board and commissioners.
Ms. Seigle noted that Sarasota County did not have public meetings for these requests, so unless she is wrong about that, it is apparently murky what is proper.
Again, this is a relatively new area and era and hopefully all will calm down and work toward a fair – toward all kids and parents – and transparent methodology and system.
BS it’s her job to know the law period before opening her mouth making parents out to be wrong. She was wrong and admitted it. But it’s not like their aren’t legal updates to these type issues. Shame on you if believe that civil lawyers don’t gave a little club meeting about this sort of thing. Criminal attorneys do. They talk about easy judges, dumb DAs and how to make the best deal. I know it’s a fact on the criminal side I’ve seen it in action. It’s about lawyers getting rich.
Staff attorneys to school boards don’t “get rich”.
Since different counties in Florida have dealt with the issue differently, your claim that these procedures are easy to determine and settled is straight BS.
Calm down dude. The kids in your yard just came to get their ball and their leaving. Don’t have a cow, man.
Direct results of the last School Board election. Had an unbelievable dream team willing to serve and make needed changes. Now we had this agenda “woke” Gainesville mentality instead.
Indoctrinate them from the crib and watch the results!
I think I am glad Crystal Marull doesn’t live in my school district. What a convoluted combination of power play and too much time on your hands. Time to get another hobby or jump on another “cause”. Are we done saving whales or rescuing puppies? How much time, money and manpower are wasted in this process? I remember when my kids were young, my parenting was questioned because I allowed a certain book series to be read in my home. Problem was, those doing the judging had NEVER read the book themselves. Those objecting parents were the same folk who sent their kids to my house with video games like Grand Theft Auto & World of Warcraft. Beware of taking the role of queen of the moral highground; it’s a long fall down thatvmountain.
http://wethepeople2.us/inappropriate-books-in-school/
After sitting in that meeting and listening, irregardless of where you land on the politics scale, I think everyone can agree that the material discussed is inappropriate for age Kindergarten through 5th grade. Let’s start there (where we are in agreement).