Liberal Logic 101


    • That’s awesome! Maybe the criminals shooting one another has finally had a positive effect.

    • Exactly Slice, only municipalities who aren’t properly funding the police have all of these problems. It’s not a legislative gun problem, it’s a lack of crime enforcement. No enforcement equals no deterrence.

    • Could be due to Biden-inflationomics! The cost of ammo is so high they can’t afford ammo.

  • Arreola , Poe and Harvey voting records and agendas have created the crime, lawlessness , block party regime that cultivates all the the shootings, murders and robberies . Then the lack of justice and punishment fuels it. They own it.

    • If it’s just those three then how would you explain the issues outside of the city and also the ongoing issues, post Poe and Arreloa? The current city and county commissioners deserve just as much blame – as do their charter officers. As does the previous sheriff and the current and previous chief of police. I guess we will see how the new sheriff pans out…hopefully he won’t play around. Gainesville and Alachua County are a laughing stock of North Florida.

      I say the lack of voter participation truly owns this mess

      • You forget that the number of Democrat voters outnumber Republican voters by an almost 3:1 margin. Until political affiliations change, or at least common sense, the city and county will continue to be ruled by idiots.

  • Yep….all those gangbangers in the hood are going to turn in their stolen guns if the State passes a law making it doubly against the law. The logic escapes me?

    • Most to many buy from guys who stole them or who buy them illegally or legally in loose states like Georgia and then drive them to Chicago and NY. That’s just a fact. Federal regulation of sales will not stop this – too many guns now on the street – but it will slow it down and make guns more expensive on the street. So will requiring insurance. Making sales of high velocity military weapons like AR15s will cut down on the effectiveness of mass killers.

      Now explain the logic behind thinking more guns will help when the correlation between our gun deaths and how common they are here, and the rest of the developed world which has almost none – that is guns and gun deaths – is overwhelming proof of how wrong that idea is.

      • Jazzman….we are not the ‘rest of the developed world’. Insurance is a comical idea. Insure against what? I already have insurance against theft, the number one way the thugs acquire firearms. What would additional insurance (if available) be for? Strawman purchases are already an egregious Federal crime. The last school shooting was carried out with a shotgun.

        • Required insurance would increase the cost of guns and provide funds for more policing, more judges, whatever you want to curb a situation out of of control.

          Making something illegal by itself does not end the practice by many when the reward is great and the system is overburdened. Uniform purchasing requirements across the states is where enforcement happens without high speed chases up I-75 or seeking arrests after the drive by.

          • Insurance companies do not hire police and judges nor would they send insurance money to the local useless thugs in government to piss away!

          • Right. So Jazz is basically saying, anyone who buys a gun, would also need to buy an insurance policy to protect anyone that got hurt by the gun owner shooting them or their property, their me bills and death amount would be paid, just another liberal ridiculous idea, for these reasons.
            1) Insurance policies generally protect the policy owner, not anyone in the world.
            2) No companies sell such a policy.
            3) If sold, the cost would be many times what a gun cost.
            4) CRIMINALS with stolen guns will not have insurance!!! Duh…

            Lastly, No the U.S. cannot and will not try to get rid of every gun that exists so criminals can’t get them. Impossible and guns can be manufactured in a garage.

          • Christine, the purpose of laws is not eliminating the targeted crime, but minimizing them and their victims. Your probably in middle school, so an understandable mistake.

            As to your list:

            1) they often protect the owner from liability.
            2) they will – capitalism
            3) maybe – capitalism and what does that tell you about the damage done and drag on our economy that guns bring.
            4) the guy they were stolen from will

          • I love how you simply replace the word “tax” with “insurance” and proceed on your merry way describing how the insurance will provide money for policing, judges and other government expenditures. 1984 brother. Big brother.

          • The tax would be on the premiums and some amount dedicated to whatever services the legislation advances to combat the targeted crime.

            It would fall under making laws by democratically elected leaders, not “authorities” appointed by those who never have been, or would be elected by those subject to their decisions. I understand your confusion.

          • Idiot! A jazz “man” lol…Stuck in liberal Gainesville huh? What a sucky place to be, just wallowing in the liberal manure spewed out by these ignorant elected officials that wish to be the next Queen or Nancy Pislosey type.

          • Don’t know where you live Christine but yes, I am very happy to be living in Alachua County/Gainesville and I chose to be here a long time ago. Now tell me about the similar size town you live in with riches of cultural and sports activities and tens of thousands of very different, smart, and interesting people. Hey, not for everyone, so if you don’t like it, hit the road tramp.

          • So, Jazz, what you’re saying is that ‘screw the poor people..only RICH people who can afford guns deserve the protection guns provide’? By declaring that pricing the guns to a ridiculous level is the right thing to do, you are telling the people of lower incomes that they are beneath you and don’t deserve to protect themselves. That’s some interesting liberal logic…

        • PS We seem to agree that we may not qualify for “developed world” status given our murderous culture.

      • “Most to many buy from guys who stole them or who buy them illegally or legally in loose states like Georgia and then drive them to Chicago and NY. That’s just a fact.” That’s just a lie. Deal with it.

        • Tazwell, I have a close relative who worked with the ATF on prosecuting some of these cases. It’s a fact.

          Where do you think teenage gang members get their guns? Buy them at Walmart?

          • That makes the world of difference. Trust what the weaponized Biden ATF is telling you. LOL

          • Dude, my relative prosecuted these type cases, you know, sent people to jail through a trial by jury under the Bush administration. He knows what he’s talking about.

            Who’s side are you on?

      • Its not the law abiding citizens who are committing acts of gun violence. More laws are not the answer. The answer is to enforce the laws that are already on the books. A criminal who is incarcerated, is unable to commit said gun violence. A little common sense would serve you well.

  • There are more guns in America than there are people. In the worst years, “gun-related” deaths are 40K-50K (in the same ballpark as car deaths). Over half of those deaths (about 55%) are suicides. So, gun violence deaths as a percentage of total guns is miniscule.

    Oh, and of the 20K or so gun violence deaths, there are already laws in place which supposedly prevent the user of the gun from owning it or possessing it. In other words, a significant percentage (maybe most) of the shooters are convicted felons who are already outlawed from having a gun. Criminals don’t follow the law! And gun control laws in America won’t stop gun violence.

    • Apparently then, unlike most commenters, you are OK with the local murders regularly written up here on the AC.

      Passing laws with no upfront enforcement – uniform strict background checks, registration – when the risk/reward ratio for the lawless is low – results in 37k gun deaths a year in the US vs 162 in the UK (that’s US 10.84 per hundred k population vs. .24 for the UK). 15% of the world’s gun deaths are here in the US.

      You have no argument for these overwhelmingly bad statistics which show we are idiots to continue acting this way and expecting Clint Eastwood to show up and fix it for us.

      PS I’m sure the wives, mothers, kids, and grandkids of those suicides you dismiss as OK are not thanking you for favoring a lethal method for their loved one to end it all, and let someone else clean up the mess.


      • That’s a pretty “regressive” interpretation of my comments. And, as usual, wrong. Of course I don’t favor murder. There are other (better) ways to combat gun violence. In the short term, prosecute criminals and get them out of society (regressives own the failure to do this). I’ve previously touched on long term solutions.

        I don’t have an argument? Surely you know me better than that. What’s the difference between the US and UK that you are not taking into account? I’ll wait. Ok, time’s up. Guns are ubiquitous here, they are not in the UK. You can’t stop easy access to guns here and the criminals are already ignoring existing gun laws. But hey, let’s keep doing the same thing expecting different results, right?

        Most, if not all, suicides are committed by law abiding citizens who would still have the same access to guns after passage of any proposed gun control law. But of course that must mean that I hate all the family members of those who kill themselves. Solid logic.

        • Dude, showing that the US is unique in being overrun by guns – including stats – is the bases for my argument, not some overlooked detail for your tone deaf “gotcha”.

          I am suggesting you look at the results of what you advocate. Obviously more guns have not solved the problem and has made it worse. Lax laws not favored by most Americans result in cheap and easy access by those criminals you blame the problem on, as if we will not always have them. They are not master criminals from a James Bond script, in many cases they are stupid teenagers with enough smarts to choke up the low price to the local source, and enough hormones to think they’re bullet proof.

          We don’t have to live with this even if it will take time – most serious problems do – to start reversing this sickness. Federal laws – not dodgeable state laws – on obtaining a gun is a starting place and is favored by most Americans. The NRA, other gun queers, and their reps on the SC have gotten away with this loser issue for too long.

          I didn’t say you hate family members of suicides, you just belittle the problem as if it wasn’t an easy access to guns problem – I suggest you think about the UK again.

          • The US does NOT have a gun problem. If you look at gun violence on a per capita basis, we rank no where near the top. That’s a fact.

            There are over 330M guns and around about 20K of them are used in gun violence deaths. Over 99% of guns are not used in gun violence. That’s a fact. It’s also a remarkable testament to the law abiding nature of the vast majority of Americans.

            No law which you suggest will limit easy access to guns in this country (if those laws are even constitutional). As evidence, I offer you the daily arrests of felons in possession. Criminals don’t follow laws. Your proposals will only affect already law-abiding citizens. What do you not get about that?

            Jazz, you’re not dealing with the problem as it exists. You can’t get rid of easy access to guns in America. The logical course of action is to focus on the criminals. It’s also the right thing to do. Regressives need to stop suggesting letting the few bad apples ruin the rights of everyone else.

          • Why do I have to repeat myself. I’ve answered all this above and you are ignoring it. We have 15% of the world’s gun deaths in America and 4.2% of it’s population. We have 10.84 gun deaths a year per hundred k population vs .24 for the UK. We aren’t in the league of other developed countries for this disgraceful stat but in Brazil’s which has an only slightly higher rate.

            That’s not a problem?

            For the 2nd time, here’s the data:


            Your solution isn’t working. You think arrests and convictions is a new idea? Really? I have a close relative who was a prosecutor for about 20 years doing violent and gang crimes – including MS13 You think he and his cops and agents didn’t give it all they had and those still at it still do? Get real.

            My solution means fewer guns and harder purchases which will increase the cost to the teenage gang members. These aren’t master criminals we are talking about. Making “assault rifles” illegal will mean the school shooters will be less lethal. I’m not dumb enough to pretend any of this will end – progress is the goal, not paradise.

            PS I’m a liberal

          • Maybe by repeating yourself, one day you’ll actually hear what you’re saying and realize how ridiculous it is. Prosecution “isn’t working”? That’s just flat out wrong. The regressive approach of defunding law enforcement has certainly led to more gun violence (Gainesville is a shining example).

            Making gun purchases more expensive? They’re not buying the guns initially! They’re stealing them. And then they get bought and sold in a secondary market for what they’re worth in that market.

            Tougher laws on owning a gun? We already have PFCF, which has a three year minimum mandatory, and the felons get arrested every day for violating it. Do you seriously not understand that laws don’t work on these people?

            And your stats are misleading- you can’t compare a country like America, with a constitutional right to own firearms, to other countries which have no such right. It’s not a valid comparison. Places like China don’t allow their citizens to own guns, so of course gun violence is lower there. How’s that individual freedom working out for them though? When you make actual apples to apples comparisons, America is nowhere near the top in gun violence.

            Bottom line- you owe your freedom to guns whether you like to admit that or not. Like it or not, you can’t get rid of guns in America.

      • We already have federally mandated universal background checks to LEGALLY buy a gun.

        Federal gun registry is unconstitutional! Never going to happen and if it did, those of us that do not trust the good for nothing government thugs would not comply! That means pretty much everyone that votes conservative!

        • Now we know who to blame. Thanks, but maybe a make over in order. Nothing “conservative” about that position or many of those favored by the like minded.

          • I couldn’t care less whom you blame! My guns were taught responsibility, they are harmless!
            You nor the authoritarian wanna be scum that you vote for has the ability to take our weapons. You don’t have the ability to force us to register them either!

    • You hit the nail on the head! If people like Jazzman ACTUALLY used facts, not feelings, they ‘might’ be taken more seriously. MOST homicides by firearms ARE suicides. MOST felonious homicides are committed with handguns, NOT AR15s. Just for argument’s sake, if there are something on the order of 20 mass murders per year with AR15s (and this is rounding way up), and there are well over 10 MILLION AR15s in the hands of private citizens, then that means that AR15s are used in mass murders .000002% of the time. Anyone with at least two brain cells can see that the AR15s are NOT the problem. Trying to outlaw them, based on feelings alone, is an absolute violation of the 2nd Amendment.

      • Suicides are not a subset of homicides and even if they were, there are more homicides than suicides in America.

        Did you somehow miss my argument about our ridiculous and sickening gun problem covers both hand guns – too easy to get for street criminals, sold out of the trunk of dealers traveling I-95 – and assault rifles. You understand these are 2 different and horrible problem, both unique to America because of our weak gun laws. Because school shooting body counts are statistically insignificant compared to hand gun deaths does not make the former not a problem or one that rightly occupies the mind of many to most of the mothers dropping off Johnny or Heather in the morning.

    • Assault weapon is a hyperbolic name assigned to what normal people would call a hunting rifle. Most ‘assault rifles’ are just regular semi-automatic .223’s that may look scary to limp wrist men

      • No Slice, an assault weapon is a firearm originally created for the military. Not a hunting rifle…unless as we see in this country you are hunting humans.

        • Joe, you are using feelings and not facts. If we are to take your statement ‘firearm originally created for the military’, then we need to rid the US of revolvers, semiautomatic handguns, shotguns, and rifles (both bolt action and semiautomatic). These were ALL designed for military use. What does that leave us… single-shot .22s? When you actually look at facts, not feelings, you will see that the big scary AR15 is used far less times to commit crimes than your average revolver or semiautomatic handgun. ‘Assault weapon’ is a contrived term meant to scare people ignorant of facts.

          • My description – and of docs I linked to – of why and how “assault rifles” are different is accurate. The fact that they cause fewer deaths than hand guns is not an argument in their favor to remain easily accessible. Crack is not as lethal as fentanyl, but not a reason to make it legal.

      • No, they’re not. The are weapons specifically designed to kill humans and feature high velocity ammunition, portability, and large capacity clips. What most don’t understand is that the high velocity ammunition literally explodes body tissues and adjacent organs, even if not directly hit. This is because damage from a moving mass is increased directly by weight, but squared by speed. It’s physics. This ammunition also produces low recoil – kick – so the shooter maintains much better control as he slaughters rooms full of kids.

        Doctors faced with treating the victims of these weapons – including military – attest to the fact that they often cannot fix the damage and death or major disfigurement is a more common result. These are not toys for teenagers – or adults – to play soldier with in civilized locations. True, we may not qualify for that description, but some of us are trying.


        And others:

        • We can buy bolt action rifles that use the EXACT same 5.56 or .223 ammo.
          You do not get to decide which guns people buy. There are millions of them in private ownership!

          • Bolt action rifles are slower, more cumbersome, and usually lack the high capacity magazine. There is a reason why assault rifles are the choice of mass shooters in schools and churches.

          • Hilarious! Your post that I was responding to was or where you whined about the 556/223 round doing so much damage to the body.

    • Assault is a verb that means to make a physical attack on. Weapon.. A weapon is a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage. An assault weapon is anything from a pencil to a frying pan to a Roman candle to a golf club. It is the intent of the user that matters. In England the dummies are banning cutlery to no avail.

    • Because it’s my constitutional right.

      Don’t like it? Change the constitution. That’s right, it’s next to impossible to do so. Why is that?

      • Oh, so you’re in a militia and under the training of Congress and command of the president?

        No dude, you’re not and no one in this country has been since Washington (he hated the militias).

        • Jazz, show us anywhere in the US Constitution that a militia is ‘under the training of Congress and command of the president’. Show us. We’ll wait. “Training of Congress” is laughable at best….
          I’m going to take a wild guess that you’re one of the ignorant liberals that state we should only use flintlock rifles since that was in use during the drafting of the Constitution. If you’re using that flawed logic, remove yourself immediately from any online discussions and revert to quill pens and paper mail only. Don’t forget that the only printing presses were reserved for newspapers and a very select few institutions so you will ONLY be allowed to convey your thoughts, in your own handwriting, and on paper. Also, if you are black or a woman, your vote doesn’t count, since you want to revert to that time period….

        • Already been established, your interpretation is irrelevant! Over 400 million guns in private hands and there is nothing you or any government thugs can do about it.

  • Mayor back-Ward is right!!!! If we just outlaw guns the criminals will follow the law and not have them. Mayor back-Ward is a very smart person. Why didn’t we think of this before.

    • Doofus, if we write laws making it more difficult for purchasers to get away with the highly profitable strawmen purchases with which they seed gangs across the US, there will be less guns for criminals at cheap prices.

      I thought you Republicans claimed to know about capitalism?

      • You are right JizzDrinker. Once the law is in place the criminals will stop using guns to commit crimes. Also you should see a doctor because you are apparently ate up with the dumb-azz disease.

        • You don’t pass laws to eliminate crimes but to minimize them.

          How old are you?

  • Even if the city or state bans all guns, the misguided idiots would still have guns as most idiots have stolen, or black market guns! So go figure

  • The lawlessness of the City commission is the magnet that inspires gun violence

  • Record high shootings and homicides and no one in City leadership positions held the least bit accountable. Record low staffing at GPD, could this possibly be related City Commission Defund and spit on Police geniuses?

  • Jazzman you’re an azz…man😂. So let’s think about this for a second it’s already against the law for a convicted felon and any person facing a domestic injunction to purchase or have on OR ABOUT their person any firearm or ammo. So the small minority (criminals)(not a race thing) are committing the vast majority of gun crimes. When by current laws are not supposed to have a gun or concealed weapon anyway, but they do. Which means what? They’re buying them from
    Georgia lmao gtfo, they’re buying local. Most of your burglaries supply the streets with enough guns as is, but wait there’s a law that says you can’t break into a home that isn’t yours lol..

    The solution is this. You fix law enforcement staffing, agencies activate proactive units to go after your criminals, prosecutors PROSECUTE instead of offering lighter plea deals for violent crimes and that’s a start. Legislation needs to be passed so that violent juvenile offenders do not get a 21 day vacation before being released by DJJ and let natural selection handle the rest.

    Owning an AR15 is my constitutional right btw that’s why I own so many.

    P.S. You’ll never STOP gun crimes and mass shootings with more gun laws, this is just the way of the world now, the only way to stop bad guys with guns is counter with good guys with guns and I highly recommend moving forward if you don’t own a gun you might want to buy one, take instructional classes on how to shoot because you’ll never know when your DEFUNDED law enforcement agency is short staffed and struggling to respond to your residence because somebody has decided to ignore your locked doors and windows😅.

    • Proud, I said Georgia was a source for guns in big NE and mid-western cities. That’s a fact you can look up and my close relative prosecutor who worked on a few of these cases relayed this to me from personal experience 20 years ago.

      Yes, locally not as much need for the Georgia source as they can buy stolen guns and Florida laws nothing like NYs. You think that’s a point that adds to your argument?
      As to what is the best strategy for reducing our pandemic of gun deaths in the US – unlike any other country in the developed world – you advocate for arrests and prosecution. Gee, that’s never been tried before. No doubt my prosecuting relative and his cops and agents would have benefitted from your knowledge and gung-ho spirit because I think they tried that already.

      What hasn’t been tried, but what is favored by most Americans, is tougher and uniform gun laws to make straw purchases more difficult and arrests easier and with better results. Since we are a democracy, ultimately – when we don’t have a SC in which 5 of them – the majority – were appointed by presidents who American voters rejected at the polls.

      In the meantime, guns are often the 2nd leading cause of death for our kids. Their supposed right in the Declaration to “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was apparently nullified by your constitutional rights, though courts have weighed that issue differently over time with Scalia’s majority opinion an overthrowing of precedent, and subject therefore to the same fate. I have confidence that the majority will in America will prevail over time. You might have to find a new hobby.

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