“You’re hurting the community, you’re hurting our schools, you’re hurting our districts”: State Board of Education grills SBAC Vice Chair Tina Certain over social media posts

BY JENNIFER CABRERA

CRAWFORDVILLE, Fla. – At the November 13 State Board of Education (BOE) meeting, board members questioned School Board of Alachua County Vice Chair Tina Certain about several social media posts; she declined to answer several questions, and she disclosed at the end of the discussion that the school district paid for the attorney who wrote a letter defending her free speech rights and accompanied her to the Board of Education meeting.

Kamoutsas reveals new complaints “that seem to demonstrate a pattern of failure and discrimination in Alachua against our most vulnerable students.”

During the Commissioner’s Report agenda item, Commissioner of Education Anastasios Kamoutsas said he had attended the October 7 meeting of the School Board of Alachua County and had “highlighted the ongoing pattern of intimidation that continues to take place at board meetings in Alachua County, as parents who dare to speak up are silenced while Alachua County School Board members act as if the law does not apply to them, and even this board issuing clear directives to both Chair Rockwell and Vice Chair Certain — there’s a toxic culture that still persists.”

Kamoutsas added that there is a new concern: “In addition, the Department has received complaints that seem to demonstrate a pattern of failure and discrimination in Alachua against our most vulnerable students. Today, the Department’s Bureau of Exceptional Education and Student Services is in Alachua, investigating this matter fully, to be sure all students receive the services and accommodations to which they are entitled.”

Kamoutsas asks about Certain’s past statement that “we live in a country of laws, but the laws aren’t always the right thing to do.”

Kamoutsas introduced the “Alachua County Update” agenda item by saying that School Board Vice Chair Tina Certain’s Facebook posts “target specific community members, are dismissive towards the teachers who work in the district, and alienate many community members. I’m also concerned about comments made during an Alachua County School Board meeting where Vice Chair Certain stated, ‘We live in a country of laws, but the laws aren’t always the right thing to do.’ It is the duty of every School Board member to adhere to and uphold the law. When an elected official suggests that laws aren’t always the right thing to do, it raises legitimate concerns about their willingness to follow the laws while serving in office.”

The comment was made at the April 2, 2024, School Board meeting in the context of a vote to keep or remove the book “The Sun and Her Flowers” by Rupi Kaur. After hearing the presentation and comments from the public, Certain said she would reluctantly vote to remove the book, as recommended by the District Library Advisory Council, and added, “But I do want to say, all laws aren’t good laws. And it was said that if you don’t like the laws [you should] elect new representatives, and that’s a lot easier said than done, especially in a state like Florida, where it has been shown that the folks who draw the districts where we vote have repeatedly practiced a practice of either gerrymandering, packing, or cracking, so that they choose who they want their voters to be, versus me being able to choose who I want mine to be. I applaud the citizens, and I appreciate them for coming and leaning in and advocating to us, their elected officials. Because if no one speaks up and pushes back, nothing would ever change. I was sitting here, and I started thinking about all of the cases in the past that have gotten us here. There were laws on the book that would have kept me from sitting here. There were laws on the books at one point in time. And there were people who came in, they advocated against me going to school with children that didn’t look like me; my grandmother didn’t have the opportunity to go to school. So yeah, we live in a country of laws, but the laws aren’t always the right thing to do.”

Certain: Facebook post was “a viewpoint on the rhetoric of Charlie Kirk”

In her statement, Certain said she is “deeply committed to the principles of ethical conduct and professionalism. I’ve always conducted myself with integrity, the best interests of students, families, and educators at the heart of every decision that I make.” She reiterated the free speech arguments that were previously made in a letter from her attorney and said her Facebook post about Charlie Kirk, shown below, was “a viewpoint on the rhetoric of Charlie Kirk, a public figure whose statements and influence were widely debated… I’ve already said my wording was blunt, and I regret that, but the words were still protected by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution and by Article I, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution.”

Certain also questioned the board’s authority to hold her accountable: “It’s deeply concerning that an individual elected official is being called before an appointed Commissioner and State Board of Education for a personal social media comment that did not involve school board policy… I believe it raises serious questions about viewpoint discrimination… for expressing a perspective that you all disagree with.” She said the BOE should be focusing on teacher pay and the “growing pressure on educators.”

Certain asked the board for a statute or administrative rule that gives the Commissioner or BOE authority over her as an individual board member and asked “which specific duty of my office I failed to perform or which policy I violated as a result of exercising my First Amendment rights on my personal social media page… I came here voluntarily because I didn’t see anything in the statute that compelled me to come… I felt like I needed to come to speak on my own behalf because my personal character was being maligned, and that didn’t sit well with me.”

BOE Member Layla Collins: “The pattern doesn’t stop, and you’re discussing your protected speech, when the first time I met you was because the speech of a parent was suppressed. The irony of that is pretty striking.”

Member Layla Collins said her concern was “about a pattern… The pattern doesn’t stop, and you’re discussing your protected speech, when the first time I met you was because the speech of a parent was suppressed. The irony of that is pretty striking.” She described some incidents in which she and her family had received death threats and said she was concerned about rising political violence: “We have to understand, when we accept this, it becomes woven into the fabric of our society,… and now we have elected School Board members demeaning a father. Forget politics — this is someone’s dad, but to those that oversee one of our districts, he is an ‘uneducated white boy.'”

Certain: “So my intent was not racial animus; my context was to use the same language that Kirk used, to expose the bias of his own rhetoric. Charlie Kirk’s comments were racist; Tina Certain isn’t a racist.”

Certain replied that her comment about Charlie Kirk was “a rhetorical use of race, reflecting the same racial framing that Charlie Kirk himself frequently used in public comments… So my intent was not racial animus; my context was to use the same language that Kirk used, to expose the bias of his own rhetoric. Charlie Kirk’s comments were racist; Tina Certain isn’t a racist.”

BOE Member Grazie Christie: “You’re obviously an activist.”

Member Grazie Christie said she could understand why “sometimes we fly off the handle and we say stupid things on social media that are offensive… I sympathize with you… On a second point, it’s easy to be surrounded by… people who feel the same way you do and who have activist mentalities. You’re obviously an activist.” Referring to Certain’s shirt, which said, “SLAVERY DID NOT BENEFIT BLACK PEOPLE,” Christie said, “You have an activist look about you, an activist tone, and I respect that.” She said it was easy to fall into a “bubble” where everyone understands that “Tina Certain is a great lady, and she would never, you know, be nasty to a little white boy or a little Asian girl, face to face… [But] when it’s brought out into social media, it is deeply offensive… As a public official, though, who represents all sorts of different people from different backgrounds,… to express yourself that way publicly is very sad. As a public official, again, I sympathize, because it’s easy to let our ill feelings get away from us publicly.”

Certain said, “I wouldn’t characterize myself as an activist, but I am an elected official, and I will stand up and advocate for what is right, I feel like, for myself and my community.” She said she would not be forced “to canonize Mr. Kirk or anyone else who disparages me or wants to oppress me or my people… I was not celebrating [Kirk’s] death, and I did not incite any riot or rage; I simply said I… didn’t agree with how he’s being elevated.” She said again that she’s not an activist but then added, “I guess that’s a new title I’ll get. I’ve been called some other things; that’s not that bad. I’m not gonna reject that title, but I can separate the two,… — but things don’t change when you’re quiet.”

Drawing lines between personal expression and professional accountability

Member MaryLynn Magar asked Certain, “Where do you think lines should be drawn between personal expression and professional accountability for elected officials?”

Certain: “I may speak things that you all may not like,… but I won’t give up the right to do that, and I always try to govern my speech and to have it where it is not offensive, because I don’t want to deal with stuff like this.”

Certain said it would depend on whether she was on the dais, making policy and “discussing something that would impact the 25,000 students that’s in my district, directly… I am not in the schools every day, over students… I may speak things that you all may not like,… but I won’t give up the right to do that, and I always try to govern my speech and to have it where it is not offensive, because I don’t want to deal with stuff like this… But just because I’m elected does not mean I cannot speak… I do understand what professional speech is and when it’s appropriate and when it isn’t, and so I wouldn’t go into the workplace and speak and say certain things… As I stated earlier, my comment was made on a Sunday.”

Magar followed up, “So you believe that your comments absolve public officials from consequences of the way that they might offend someone or cause division?”

Certain responded, “I believe my personal speech is not in the Florida Constitution or in state statute as a reason for removing me from office,… so I’m not sure what consequences you’re alluding to.”

Magar replied, “The consequences of just coming up and explaining things.”

Certain: “Why should i have to explain what I said on my personal Facebook page, on my personal time, using my personal device, when I have First Amendment rights and I’m elected?”

Certain asked, “Why should i have to explain what I said on my personal Facebook page, on my personal time, using my personal device, when I have First Amendment rights and I’m elected?” She said the citizens would “have their chance at the ballot box” in 2026 to vote her out: “That’s how we deal with that. Removing me from office or trying to slap my hand and chill my speech, that’s is not the way democracy works.”

Kamoutsas: “You continue to not understand the point that this State Board is trying to communicate to you: You are an example for these children.”

Kamoutsas said, “You continue to not understand the point that this State Board is trying to communicate to you: You are an example for these children.” He said she has the right to criticize anyone, but there were other posts with racial references. He showed a Gainesville Word of Mouth post in which Certain said she “avoid all asian own stores” because of a bad experience in 1999.

Kamoutsas continued, “How do you think those comments make that community feel?” He then showed another post in which Certain wrote, “They move in and then want to change things” and then clarified, “My ‘They’ is White ppl.”

Kamoutsas commented, “Again, you bring [race] into your posts.” He showed a third screenshot that showed Certain “liking” a post that said, “White women have always been central to building, maintaining, and protecting racial violence. They weren’t the sidelines — they were the architects too.”

Kamoutsas: “This is not the kind of behavior we want to see in our school system. We want to see civil discourse, respectful dialogue.”

Kamoutsas commented, “Again, what the board’s point is, is having you recognize and appreciate the significance and the responsibility you hold as a member of a School Board that makes decisions that impact children, and what is the example that you are setting for children. This is not the kind of behavior we want to see in our school system. We want to see civil discourse, respectful dialogue… I am a fundamental believer in the First Amendment, but what we are not going to allow to happen in this school system in Florida is students [being] misled by adults into engaging in violent political rhetoric or calling people out because of the way God created them.”

BOE Vice Chair Esther Byrd: “Is racism a moral failing that would affect the ability of a School Board Member to represent all of the students in their district and support all of the families of those students? Yes or no?”

Vice Chair Esther Byrd asked, “Is racism a moral failing that would affect the ability of a School Board Member to represent all of the students in their district and support all of the families of those students? Yes or no?”

After looking at her attorney, Certain said, “I’m not going to answer that. I’m declining.” Byrd said, “Okay, I’ll take that as a yes. How do you think that the thousands of uneducated white boys who have children in your schools can trust that you care about their students and that you support them as parents? How about the Asians?”

Certain said, “On the advice of my counselor, I would decline to answer that.”

Collins followed up, “You explained that your behavior essentially was irrelevant because you’re not with kids… So are we really saying the Board Members’ behavior should be held at a lesser standard than our teachers? Because that’s not leadership.”

Certain: “I can say I’m not going to patronize a store owned by a certain demographic — I can do that. That was done during Jim Crow… I choose not to spend my money in places who don’t respect me as a customer. That doesn’t disqualify me from holding public office.”

Certain said, “I didn’t say my behavior was irrelevant. What I said was that I’m not over students every day… I don’t teach anyone’s child on a daily basis… Criticizing a public figure is not misconduct… I can say I’m not going to patronize a store owned by a certain demographic — I can do that. That was done during Jim Crow… I choose not to spend my money in places who don’t respect me as a customer. That doesn’t disqualify me from holding public office.”

Collins: “The issue I have is with the racial undertone… It is a pattern of a lack of regard for certain people.”

Collins said she believes in free speech and criticizes elected officials and policies “all the time, but… the issue I have is with the racial undertone… You could have said nothing about Charlie Kirk. Lots of people said nothing. You could have said, ‘I disagree with someone.’ But in this case, it was, ‘Why are they memorializing, or whatever word you used, an uneducated white boy?’ That is what I think everyone up here is trying to explain… It is a pattern of a lack of regard for certain people.”

Certain: “When I’m on the dais voting on policy or agenda items, I’m not saying, ‘Who is this beneficial to?’ I’m not asking about the race of the person.”

Certain repeated that it was “a rhetorical use of race, framing it as in the same words that Mr. Kirk used… He had significantly less education than the people that he was criticizing.” She said nobody in the district asks a child about their parent’s religious or political affiliations, but “we know their race. No one knows the folks’ political affiliation if they don’t come in and state that. When I’m on the dais voting on policy or agenda items, I’m not saying, ‘Who is this beneficial to?’ I’m not asking about the race of the person.”

BOE Chair Ryan Petty: “What might community members think when they hear a public official question whether laws are the right thing to do?”

Chair Ryan Petty went back to the quote above about “the laws aren’t always the right thing to do,” and he asked, “How can members of the community trust that you, an elected school board member, will uphold the laws after making such a statement at a board meeting — not on social media? Second question: How do you think your statement affected public confidence in your commitment to uphold the law? Third question: What might community members think when they hear a public official question whether laws are the right thing to do?”

Certain said she did not recall saying that, “and right now, I’m not prepared to give a response to that”; she said she was not “provided with that particular topic prior to entering this meeting.” She said the School Board is governed by majority, and she has voted to adopt state statutes, as recommended by the Superintendent and the Staff Attorney.

Petty said, “I’m going to characterize your answer as, it’s a good thing there are other School Board members on the Alachua County School Board, because the community can have some assurance that the board will follow the law, even if you don’t see fit.”

Certain said that was not a fair characterization and continued, “That’s the reason why I am not going to answer that question. If you have questions and you’d like to submit them to me, I will respond to them.” She asked for evidence that she had not followed the law “as it pertains to disposing of my duties.”

[Editor’s note: Between August 17 and November 2, 2021, Certain voted multiple times to extend the district’s mandatory masking policy after the Florida Department of Health issued an emergency rule on August 6 that required school districts to allow for parental opt-out of mask mandates.]

Petty showed another Facebook conversation between Certain, a man, and an account named “Sarah Beth” that appears to be about the Newberry Charter School budget, at a time when both Certain and Rockwell were on the School Board.

Petty asked Certain if she recognized the name “Sarah Beth,” and she said, “No.” Kamoutsas asked, “Sarah Beth is not the same account as Sarah Rockwell?” Certain responded, “I don’t know.” She said if she’d been sent the post in advance, she could have looked into it. When asked if the posts were from her account, Certain responded, “I see my name there.”

Petty asked what the three people were discussing in the post, implying that if they were talking about School Board business, it may have been a Sunshine Law violation, and Certain responded, “On the advice of counsel, he said for me not to answer.” Petty said that was “probably good advice.”

BOE Member Daniel Foganholi: “Why are they homeschooling?… Because the leadership shows a failure in class and responsibility… They do not trust you.”

Foganholi said that, race aside, her comment was “a smack to the face” of the 52% of Alachua County residents who do not have college degrees: “Those are hard-working people, men and women, veterans, people that go to work, to put in businesses, to fight for our schools, send their kids to our schools… Enrollment’s down. I don’t know why. Why are they homeschooling?… Because the leadership shows a failure in class and responsibility… They do not trust you… Politics has no place in education. Do what’s right for kids.”

Foganholi: “Words matter, tone matters, and there is no difference between a personal Facebook page and a political Facebook page. Your name is your name. You are that representative all the time… You’re hurting the community, you’re hurting our schools, you’re hurting our districts. Please stop making it so easy.”

Foganholi concluded, “What would an activist do if you came to the state board? I don’t know — maybe wear a t-shirt that says, ‘Slavery did not benefit black people’? That’s what an activist does. You represent all people — not Republicans, not Democrats, not black, not white, not brown, all people… If it’s too hard, don’t do it… Words matter, tone matters, and there is no difference between a personal Facebook page and a political Facebook page. Your name is your name. You are that representative all the time… Nobody’s arresting you for your free speech… You have the right to your free speech, but this is what happens. You’re hurting the community, you’re hurting our schools, you’re hurting our districts. Please stop making it so easy.”

Certain said, “I wear this shirt proudly.” She said she does not support the state’s African American History standards and tells parents “when they get to this unit and to this standard, to either opt their child out — because y’all believe in parents’ rights, that’s what you say, right? I hope it’s parents’ rights for everybody, and not just the ones who align with y’all — tell them to opt out, because there’s some of those standards that I do not agree with, but my district will adopt them, and I will tell people not to do that.”

Certain: “I don’t think parents have lost confidence and trust in the district school because public schools still educate the majority of the students in Florida.”

Certain continued, “I don’t think parents have lost confidence and trust in the district school because public schools still educate the majority of the students in Florida, and when students leave and they take a voucher,… a lot of those students come back to the district to take classes… And if you didn’t think something was good for your child, you wouldn’t come back.”

Certain: “It’s hard being an educator because people call you groomers. They call you this, they call you that for wanting to teach children to think and have access to a wide variety of materials.”

Certain concluded, “There’s some phenomenal educators that have been vilified… It’s hard being an educator because people call you groomers. They call you this, they call you that for wanting to teach children to think and have access to a wide variety of materials. So I’m grieved by that,… but I believe in the promise of public education and how life-changing it is… So yeah, I’ll be an activist,… and I’ll make comments on Facebook, as is my First Amendment right… I felt it was wrong to canonize Mr. Kirk,… so that was me speaking out against what I thought was wrong.” She added a quote “from the late Barbara Jordan, ‘If society allows wrongs to go unchallenged, the impression is created that those wrongs have the approval of the majority.'”

Magar: “Who is paying for your attorney, or your counsel?”

Magar had a final question: “Who is paying for your attorney, or your counsel?”

Certain responded, “The district is paying for that… The Board Attorney came to me after the letter was sent and said, ‘Ms. Certain, if you need some legal assistance,… I’m bogged down now, but I’ll get with you.’ And so he is filling in as the Board Attorney and our Staff Attorney, and I said, ‘Well, Attorney Delaney, since you’re bogged down, I would prefer to get someone outside of the district to help me with this.’ And he said that is allowable policy, and so that is how the district is paying for my attorney.”

Christie concluded by offering “friendly advice. Number one, remember that the cure for racism is not more racism in the opposite direction… And number two, when you’re going to post anything and say something publicly, replace the word ‘white’ or ‘Asian’ with ‘black,’ and then hear it in your head and see how that would feel to you and to the people that you love.”